FIXED: CTF female/male mixup?

[Razhak]

* R HP:Healthy DP:Fading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Scratched > Thick Forest
Large, old trees grow close together here. Oaks, elms and ashes abound. To
make progress harder, the ground between the trees is covered in thick
vines and neck-high grass. A small hovel, with a hole in its northern wall
can be seen in the south, and strange, broad leafed trees grow in the east.
[ obvious exits: E S ]
There are some tracks of an animal leaving south.
There are some tracks of an animal leaving east.
A bruised and bloody leg lies on the ground, torn from its socket. [2]
A shattered arm lies in a bloody red and purple mess.
A soft leather pouch has been discarded here. [2]
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A tall, ramshorned trolloc is here, commanding.
A black shadow stallion paws the ground here, fiery-red eyes shining with evil, being ridden by you.
A Legion of Unity guardsman is here, fighting YOU!
A Legion guardsman fights for Unity here.
An officer of the Legion of Unity commands her men here.

* R HP:Healthy DP:Fading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Scratched >
A Legion of Unity guardsman tries to pierce you, but you parry successfully.
You slash a Legion of Unity guardsman's left arm into bloody fragments!

* R HP:Healthy DP:Fading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Hurt >
A Legion of Unity guardsman tickles your body with her pierce.
A ramshorned trolloc joins your fight!
A Legion of Unity guardsman joins a Legion of Unity guardsman's fight!
A Legion of Unity officer joins a Legion of Unity guardsman's fight!
You gaze deeply into the soul of a Legion of Unity guardsman.
A Legion of Unity guardsman looks very strange, glaring about with a sense of panic.
You slash a Legion of Unity guardsman's body extremely hard.

* R HP:Scratched DP:Fading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Hurt > not
You start paying increased attention to your surroundings.

* R HP:Scratched DP:Fading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Hurt >
A Legion of Unity guardsman tickles a ramshorned trolloc's body with her pierce.
A Legion of Unity guardsman tries to pierce you, but you deflect the blow.
You slash a Legion of Unity guardsman's body very hard.

* R HP:Scratched DP:Fading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Wounded >
A Legion of Unity officer tickles a ramshorned trolloc's body with her slash.
A Legion of Unity guardsman tickles a ramshorned trolloc's right hand with her pierce.
A ramshorned trolloc slices a Legion of Unity officer's body very hard.
A ramshorned trolloc slices a Legion of Unity guardsman's body hard.
A Legion of Unity guardsman tries to pierce you, but you parry successfully.
You slash a Legion of Unity guardsman's left leg into bloody fragments!

* R HP:Scratched DP:Fading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Wounded > k legion
2
[kill ]
You do the best you can!

[bash ] ading MV:Strong - a Legion of Unity guardsman: Wounded >

*
A Legion of Unity officer tickles a ramshorned trolloc's head with her slash.
A Legion of Unity guardsman tries to pierce a ramshorned trolloc, but he deflects the blow.
A ramshorned trolloc slices a Legion of Unity officer's body extremely hard.
A ramshorned trolloc tries to slice a Legion of Unity guardsman, but she deflects the blow.
A Legion of Unity guardsman mounts an attack against you, but weak nerves get the better of her.

=
Your bash at a Legion of Unity guardsman sends her sprawling!


The same goes with the officer. Where "officer" is actually possible for both male and female, wouldnt it be more correct to set the mobs to be guardswomen instead of men, if they are female? Or perhaps change them to male?

Not a big deal, and I dont want to be genderexclusive here at all

[Atienne]

In real militaries with that rank, it’s considered to be non gender-specific. By changing it, it opens up the possibility of “needing” to change others. I believe the Wall Guard CTF mobs may be female, and some Winged Guard mobs are also female.

[Det]

man is a contraction of Human.

get off your #meToo

[isabel]

Right, except we do not use 1000 year old English anymore. And more importantly, the inclusion of women in the word 'men' was never some neutral linguistic convenience, but one where women were not seen as fully human in the same way.

See for example Jefferson's "all men are created equal" - this is not a simple contraction of "all men (which includes women) are created equal". At that time women couldn't enter into legal contracts, own property, or vote. Women didn't have the standing to be relevant in that sentence because they were not seen as fully human in the same way as men.

Since this is the Bugs forum and an imm reading my post is possibly thinking at this point "this is Bugs forum, not a political discussion let me hit that lock button right away" I will add that that on Wotmud (a text game), some of the mobs are just written wrong, most likely from a lack of understanding around this (I mean no offense - please take this as reader feedback).

Open any published book today - including Robert Jordan's books - and see whether you have lines like "Then the doctor said xyz and the FEMALE doctor said abc". It will just say doctor / lawyer/ smuggler / guard whatever and the subsequent text will clarify where relevant.

But here we have 'smuggler chief'' and 'female smuggler chief'. Another one that jumps out is "sun-darkened" or similar name in TV.

If at this point you're thinking "but surely we can't go around making 99% of the mobs 'male smuggler chief' or 'fair-skinned'" etc, I would refer you to a writing resource like this one - https://ualr.edu/writingcenter/avoid-sexist-language/

[Atienne]

Right, except we do not use 1000 year old English anymore. And more importantly, the inclusion of women in the word 'men' was never some neutral linguistic convenience, but one where women were not seen as fully human in the same way.

See for example Jefferson's "all men are created equal" - this is not a simple contraction of "all men (which includes women) are created equal". At that time women couldn't enter into legal contracts, own property, or vote. Women didn't have the standing to be relevant in that sentence because they were not seen as fully human in the same way as men.

Since this is the Bugs forum and an imm reading my post is possibly thinking at this point "this is Bugs forum, not a political discussion let me hit that lock button right away" I will add that that on Wotmud (a text game), some of the mobs are just written wrong, most likely from a lack of understanding around this (I mean no offense - please take this as reader feedback).

Open any published book today - including Robert Jordan's books - and see whether you have lines like "Then the doctor said xyz and the FEMALE doctor said abc". It will just say doctor / lawyer/ smuggler / guard whatever and the subsequent text will clarify where relevant.

But here we have 'smuggler chief'' and 'female smuggler chief'. Another one that jumps out is "sun-darkened" or similar name in TV.

If at this point you're thinking "but surely we can't go around making 99% of the mobs 'male smuggler chief' or 'fair-skinned'" etc, I would refer you to a writing resource like this one - https://ualr.edu/writingcenter/avoid-sexist-language/

I think it's silly you are arguing this obvious political stuff in a bug post.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guardsman
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guardswoman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardsman
See section under Canada

It's not 1,000 year old English.

I agree it is unnecessary to say "female smuggler chief" when we can just say "smuggler chief", make the mob female, and have a description describing a woman. Unless it's a "number of mobs in the game" thing where we have a max number of mobs that can be "smuggler chief". In which case we could just call it something else.

I'm not sure what the big deal is about sun-darkened - it's a mob that has a tan? Probably a sailor or maybe a farmer? People describe things as they see them, and maybe the creator of that mob thought it was important to draw attention to this?

I would like to see what the Legion mob description says. It would only truly be a bug if the description described a man. Other than that, I would say it's fine.

After checking it out, I found the following:

Along the Forest Trail
There are some creepers in the trees. The thorny bushes in the side of the
roads seem dangerous and the thorns sharp. The trail continues to the east and
west.
[ obvious exits: N W ]
Zone: Twisted Forestlands
A gory tuft of flesh lies abandoned on the ground.
A soft leather pouch has been discarded here.
The corpse of a darkfriend leader is lying here.
A Legion guardsman fights for Unity here.
A Legion guardsman fights for Unity here.
An officer of the Legion of Unity commands her men here.

* R HP:Beaten MV:Full >
l legion
His eyes watches every move in the area, scanning for possible threats to
his safety. Strong arms, a face in stone and with a temper like few, he is
the up-holder of peace in the world. Duty rests heavy on his shoulders but
he does not mind carrying it. The Legion of Unity is his home and its
members his family...

A Legion of Unity guardsman has a few scratches.
A Legion of Unity guardsman is scratched.

a Legion of Unity guardsman is using:
<worn on head> a chain coif
<worn about body> a fine woolen cloak
<worn on hands> a thick pair of leather work gloves
<wielded> a rapier
<worn on legs> a pair of thin leather leggings
<worn on feet> a pair of heavy leather boots

* R HP:Beaten MV:Full >
l 2.legion
His eyes watches every move in the area, scanning for possible threats to
his safety. Strong arms, a face in stone and with a temper like few, he is
the up-holder of peace in the world. Duty rests heavy on his shoulders but
he does not mind carrying it. The Legion of Unity is his home and its
members his family...

A Legion of Unity guardsman has a few scratches.
A Legion of Unity guardsman is scratched.

a Legion of Unity guardsman is using:
<worn on head> a chain coif
<worn about body> a fine woolen cloak
<worn on hands> a thick pair of leather work gloves
<wielded> a rapier
<worn on legs> a pair of thin leather leggings
<worn on feet> a pair of heavy leather boots

l 3.legion
* R HP:Beaten MV:Full >
Powerful of limb, and steady of eye, this woman has faced the worst that the
Seanchan Empire and the Shadow can throw at her, and done it unflinchingly.
She moves with the grace that learning to kill robs most people of, and a
ready smile indicates she has not yet lost her sense of humor. The way she
handles her weapon shows that she is more than familiar with it, for those
who know how to look...

A Legion of Unity officer is in excellent condition.
A Legion of Unity officer is healthy.

a Legion of Unity officer is using:
<worn on head> a metal helmet
<worn on hands> a pair of metal half-gauntlets
<wielded two-handed> a two-fisted flamberge
<worn about waist> a wide leather belt
<worn on belt> a soft leather pouch
<worn on legs> a pair of thin metal leggings
<worn on feet> a pair of thin metal boots

* R HP:Beaten MV:Full >
con legion
Well, she is taller than you, heavier than you, and in general about as stocky as you.
Now where did that chicken go?

* R HP:Beaten MV:Full >
con 2.legion
Well, she is taller than you, heavier than you, and in general about as stocky as you.
Now where did that chicken go?

* R HP:Beaten MV:Full >
con 3.legion
Well, she is taller than you, heavier than you, and in general about as stocky as you.
Now where did that chicken go?

So 1.legion and 2.legion have descriptions indicating that the soldiers are men, while the officer's description indicates a woman. WoTMUD is a lot more progressive than you think Isabel.

The bug here is that the minion guardsman are mislabeled as female.

[Elysia]

I think you're reading too much into that, Isabel.

Regarding the sun-darkened man, that's literally aimed to describe the type of work this man does: always outside, exposed to the elements. Skin tone due to being out in the sun changes before the long term damage of exposure to the sun, wind, hot and cold becomes visible, like premature aging. So he's not got that grooved face you see in old folks who worked the fields yet, but if he continues captaining that ship, he will be that person in the future. For now, that tanned skin sets him apart from the delicate city dwellers, which is also useful for a quest related mob.

It's also a link to the other tanned captains that we have in the game, without using the same word, tanned, again.

Sometimes there's a bit more reason than what appears to be a superficial focus on skin color etc.

[isabel]

Not saying anything is intentional, but I'm not sure what indoors/outdoors has to do with skin colour on the global scale that the wheel of time world is set in (i.e. regional variation far outweighs the 'tanning' differences). If anything, the pale-faced clerk/noble something would be more appropriate as a majority of the non-industrial wheel of time folk would generally be outdoors. Why wouldn't guards who stand at the gate all day be sun-darkened? Or farmers or hunters or cavalry officers?

Wouldn't say I'm reading too much into it Elysia. It's some kind of unique and unheard of category that someone has come up with as that all ship's captains are 'tanned'.

From a descriptor perspective, if you're going with 'the first thing you notice about this person is that s/he has been out in the sun' think about who would notice something like that in the wheel of time world? Like is that really the first thing that would strike anyone when so much is outdoorsy? You might notice tough features, strength of arms, a way of walking that indicates sea legs, maybe hair that has seen too much salt water or some such?

Whereas skin colour is so incredibly relative - someone from Tear or Tanchico or wherever is not going to find the same person 'tanned' as someone from Cairhien or Caemlyn or wherever.

[Thore]

What is going on here? Doesn't skin have melatonin and darken with exposure to UV rays? Did I ever think we'd have this discussion on wotmud? No. Stories were written at a time and should not be rewritten for a new time, in my opinion, unless rewritten with a new name to indicate such. It's.. history. WoT was written. It's done. Didn't RJ and BS use adjectives (sometimes too many) to describe a burly man, a sexy woman, a fair-skinned who/whomever, an "Asian-themed" (probably got that one wrong) Aiel race? Idk.. kinda agree outside of the bug of the Legion mobs being mis-flagged compared to their descriptions, I'd say carry on if it were my choice...

[Thore]

Wow I need to stop going down this rabbit hole lol This first Google search came up with what sounds like a fantastic read, where the author says no one has time to read past the first four books lol, and then goes on writing many gems...

https://m.mythcreants.com/blog/six-sexi ... ime-books/

Am I allowed to RP GRANGH these days or would I get in trouble???

[isabel]

I mean you're posting to say you are not interested in this topic, have no knowledge of it, and lost patience with it after the first 5 seconds of a google search, and yet want to state your opinion on some kind of.. adjective use?