Adael wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:50 pm
a channie with roughly 140 db and 200 pb vs trolls with, say, 170 ob:
Yeah but can we use a realistic example here please? Who t f is running around with 340 defense? Maybe Gretchen?
Here is my actual choice given my stats and equipment, meaning 17 dex and not dripping in rares:
132 db and 178 pb is what I have with a full parry set up with a few dodge trinkets instead. If I were to go full dodge, I hit 145-147db (depending on how much food I'm carrying) and have 156 pb. This is
with armor and master bonuses, all on foot. Wielding fblades.
- 132 db and 178 pb, fighting two trollocs with 180 OB each is a little under 13.78% chance they hit me in melee. Just shy of 28% to get hit in a given melee round.
- 146 db and 156 pb, again against 2 with 180 OB each is 13.78% chance they hit me in melee. Just shy of 28% chance to get hit in a given melee round.
This means that against 2 opponents or less, there's no difference?
Same numbers against 3 with 180 OB:
- parry set up (132 db and 178 pb): 26.33% chance to get hit.
- dodge set up (146 db and 156 pb): 24.38% chance to get hit.
There's basically no effective difference between my dodge and parry kits once you reach 3+ hitting at 180 OB!!!
That's not insignificant,
especially for channelers who have their weaves interrupted if hit. The take away is just *never stand toe to toe against 3 or more.*
Now let's do bashing... with 146 db it's *roughly* about 20% to eat a bash from a player with a club at 180 OB, and with 132 db it is *roughly* 40%. However, if I am sitting in a room with 2+ and letting a bash timer finish I am usually screwing up. I'd only let the timers run if I were wanting to gamble that you miss and then my fireball hits you, which I'm generally not going to do against someone with a good bash set up.
*However* - the parry equipment also gives you
significantly more abs absorption (9% for dodge versus over 30% in Orma gear) in addition to providing more chance to block hits when you are bashed. I'd have to run tons of numbers I don't want to, but anecdotally I survive *much longer* wearing Orma gear than I do full dodge. I can actually eat several bashes and live, versus eating 1-2 and popping like a cork. If you run into a mounted fade with a club and you have a dodge kit with less than 19 dex, you're screwed.
I don't know why I'd ever be standing toe to toe against 3 or more unless I was really feeling very confident I could sneak in a couple flame strikes and finish someone off (it's a fun gamble anyway).
With this tool I'm finally able to decently calculate effective hit points... I'm a little busy at the moment so that'll have to wait but I'd be
very surprised if the EHP of my parry set up is less than full dodge, given my stats and available equipment.
Eol wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:03 pm
My big take home from this calculator and the bash calculator - and I know this seems obvious..., but big OB people make a big difference. You put a few 180 people on there - yeah, it increases with each person. You start putting people with 200+ OB into the mix and the jumps are sizable in the hitting and the bash department. Back in the day I did things that now with the coding seem clearly insane - heavy clubs and other low OB set-ups. Being zerk, being a master, using threadies as a troll - all very potent contributors.
This is also very true and actually a big reason why I dropped full dodge also. If I run into a mounted fade with a club or someone with malf, I am screwed wearing full dodge. Period. The difference in bash % between 132db and ~146db at that point are negligible*. Parry at least gives me a chance to get away.
* 200 OB riding with a club = 45% chance to bash 146 db versus 66% chance to bash 132 db. It's just not that significant of a difference anymore but then factor in the abs % and the parry still working somewhat when you're sat. I can almost feel the frustration coming through the connection when I'm bashed but parrying the hits anyway.
e: using a 16 lb weapon for these calculations, obviously your mileage may vary. However in general the better the bash kit the less effective difference there is between 132 db and 146 db.