Deep into the ethics of healing!

[Penzei]

Point of view: Penzei

Participant:
Raeza Sedai
Accepted Penzei


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


knock carveddoor

The carveddoor is opened from the other side.

Hall of Inferences of the White Ajah
The oval room is entirely filled by a single immense table, ornately
carved chairs with white leather cushions placed around it at equidistant
intervals. Behind each chair sits a large blackboard, smeared with chalk
dust accumulated over many years. Slender soaring windows pierce the high
walls, stretching to the distant ceiling. A large arch to the north leads
out of the chamber, heavy wooden doors swinging on cast-iron hinges.
[ obvious exits: N ]
Zone: White Tower Upper Floors
Door north: door
A chair made of red oak rests next to the table.
A chair made of red oak rests next to the table.
Lady Raeza Dovoros is sitting here.
A silver-haired Aes Sedai sits here, reading.
A White Sister walks by, deep in thought.
Carlinya Sedai stands here, pale of skin and cold of manner as the white fringe on her
shawl.

Penzei curtseys to her audience.

Raeza gestures at the door with her hand.

Raeza nods at Penzei.

The door silently swings shut and lock with a soft *click*.

Penzei says 'Greetings Raeza Sedai!'

Raeza says 'Hello, Accepted.'

Raeza says 'Please, sit.'

sit chair
Penzei sit down on a stout oaken chair.

Raeza motions at the other chair.

Raeza nods in agreement.

Raeza looks a bit faint, but offers a slight smile.

Raeza says 'What can I help you with today, child?'

Penzei says 'Well I met with Firimei Sedai earlier, just looking to expand my experince and
knowledge and meet more of the senior members of the different Ajahs!'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Raeza says 'I look forward to seeing Firimei again. We have both been deep in the White
quarters of late.'

Raeza chuckles politely.

Penzei says 'She seemed excited to be back in the saddle so to speak!'

Raeza offers a slight smile.

Raeza says 'Do I understand correctly that you are a Yellow apprentice?'

Penzei senses Raeza connecting to the True Source.

Raeza channels small flows of Fire to warm the half finished cup of tea on the table in
front of her.

Penzei says 'You do, I have been both in the field and in research of the healing arts taught
by the Yellow Ajah'

Penzei produces a leather binder with parchment and a quill from seemingly nowhere out of
her dress...

Raeza says 'Ah very well. I have no real Talent for Healing myself, but I do have some
interest in the ethics of Healing. I suppose you have thought a bit about that during your
training, hm?'

Raeza eyes you coolly.

Penzei says 'Oh yes, I remains a contentious point at certain moments due to peoples
superstitions '

Penzei says 'It remains that is'

Raeza says 'Perhaps you can tell me a bit about it. Some ethical quandaries, as you see
it?'

Penzei flips through her binder seemingly filled with notes momentarily.

along side a Child of Light...
Penzei says 'On more than a few occasion I found myself on the field of battle north of Fal
Dara along side a Child of Light...'

Raeza nods, listening.

to fight the trollocs and fades, but get very upset should you offer then any healing...
Penzei says 'In the heat of battle versus the Dark Spawn, it seems they will put aside their
dogma to fight the trollocs and fades, but get very upset should you offer then any
healing...'

Raeza nods slowly.

Penzei says 'On a number of occasions however I have found it nessecary to use the one power
to heal them for if they did not received medical attention, they would have perished and
possibly so would have I.'

A silver-haired Aes Sedai says 'You have been awarded 3 rpqps by Sarinda for log with
wisdom vhaleriejuly102asilverhaired'

Penzei is sitting.

Raeza chuckles politely.

Raeza says 'It seems seems my Sister has JUST recalled that you were owed something.'

Penzei giggles.

Penzei says 'Seems so!'

Raeza says 'You could wait until were finished, sister, really.'

Raeza shakes her head at a silver-haired Aes Sedai.

Penzei says 'Ethically... I did what I had to do in the moment to unsure victory over the dark
one...'

Raeza says 'And what sort of reaction do you receive in those scenarios?'

A silver-haired Aes Sedai says 'You have been awarded 1 rpqps by Aloisa for log learning
to fail'

Raeza rolls her eyes...sheesh!..

Penzei falls down laughing.

Penzei says 'Everything from vicious scowls to threats...'

Penzei says 'None of them have attacked me yet'

Penzei says 'atleast not north of Fal Dara however'

Penzei giggles.

Raeza says 'How close to death must one be to warrant Healing them without consent?'

Raeza says 'In your view?'

Penzei says 'It's gotta be pretty dire for me to consider such an action'

Raeza says 'I take is as assumed, give what you just said, that "never" is not your
answer.'

Raeza says 'How does one calculate that kind of risk?'

Penzei says 'It is, difficult to explain'

Raeza says 'And if there is no risk to yourself, only the person who would receive the
Healing, does that change the equation?'

Raeza says 'These are some questions I have.'

Raeza says 'We like to work with precise assumptions in the White, not vaguaries.'

Raeza offers a slight smile.

Penzei says 'I like to stack my thoughts by priority in combat situations, what is the likely
outcome given the choices that have been made'

Penzei thumbs through her notes again.

Raeza nods, motioning you to continue.

Penzei says 'Using what I've learned and what I've experinced I make judgement calls,
sometiems I'm right, sometimes I'm not'

Penzei says 'Sometimes I end up washed up at the gates of Malkier'

Penzei giggles.

Raeza says 'Yes, using your gut, I guess.'

Raeza says 'Not something we are fond of in this particular wing.'

Raeza offers a slight smile.

Penzei says 'In a hostile enviroment where seconds matter ?'

Penzei says 'yes'

Penzei says 'Outside of that, it would be unethical to heal a Child of Light'

Raeza says 'Let us assume a scenario where the Whitecloak would die with 100% certainty,
but no one else was in danger. Should he or she be Healed?'

Raeza says 'without consent, I mean.'

Penzei nods in agreement.

Penzei taps her quill to her cheek while she thinks

Penzei giggles.

Penzei says 'I know one or two of them I would not, but they have left me with a dagger in my
back, but I generally would not idly let someone die because of dogma or hubris'

Penzei says 'If I could manage I would exhaust every available option before I did however'

Raeza says 'Interesting, so may we then conclude that in your view, you have more of a
right to determine whether that person lives or dies than they themself do?'

Penzei goes wide eyed momentarily at the words.

Raeza strokes her chin in thought.

Penzei says 'Most individuals lack the ability to pull someone from the brink of death, maybe
we don't agree on everything but should a someone die due to inaction ?'

Raeza says 'That is a question of ethics and morality. I am trying to understand your
position.'

Raeza offers a slight smile.

Raeza says 'Do not worry, it is just a thought experiment.'

Penzei says 'No no, I take no offense'

Raeza says 'But a useful one, dare I say.'

Penzei says 'It's a very thought provoking conversation'

Penzei says 'and I've heard multiple different sides of the story'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Penzei says 'the answer is very different depending on who you ask'

Penzei says 'But if it serves a purpose or gets us what we need sometimes the ends justify the
means'

Penzei says 'Hard choices'

Penzei nods in agreement.

Raeza mumbles something about the Blues.

Penzei giggles.

Raeza says 'Yes, we can consider the case where keeping that soldier in the battle could
turn the full tide of the skirmish, saving multiple lives, in addition to their own.'

Raeza says 'In that case, it is more than just the life of that person in the balance.'

Raeza strokes her chin.

Penzei nods in agreement.

Penzei says 'The choice becomes easy in those situations'

Raeza says 'Easier.'

Penzei says 'Easier!'

Penzei says 'A better choice of words'

Penzei jots that down in her notes quickly.

Raeza says 'I am curious about a generalization of the case we were discussing earlier.'

Raeza says 'Imagine we are outside of a battle scenario.'

Raeza says 'A town near Amador, where people are very much swayed by the propoganda of the
Children.'

Penzei nods in agreement.

Raeza says 'The town comes down with a plague, which Healing could solve, but otherwise
many will die.'

Raeza says 'Does that town have the free will to decide their own fate, or should the
Yellow Ajah swoop in and save them?'

Raeza says 'It is a similar dilemma to the earlier case, really.'

Penzei says 'Quite the dilemma, after careful analysis ensuring that the plague itself was not
caused by the shadow itself and is as they say a natural occurrence, I would offer support
to the Wisdoms to ease the suffering of the people but given no involvement from the
Shadow Spawn, I would have to consult the experince of my more experinced members if I
could'

Penzei says 'If I could not... it may not be so easy to sit by and just watch people waste
away'

Raeza taps her chin in thought.

Raeza says 'So, the influence of the Shadow is an important factor in your mind?'

Raeza says 'Interesting.'

Penzei says 'Common folk have no defense against the contagions of the Dark Spawn'

Penzei says 'There are no known cures for such things outside of the One power'

Raeza rubs her chin.

Penzei says 'Not to mention, wild male channelers could utilize such things to attack
communities'

Raeza says 'So, if someone is dying of natural causes, they have the freedom to choose
Healing or death. But if they are dying from influence by the Shadow, they must take
Healing, even against their will?'

Penzei says 'We need only to look at history to see what happens when communities do not
receive aid against the Shadow, entire nations have fallen to such things'

A silver-haired Aes Sedai says 'You have been awarded 3 rpqps by Kathala for quest wrt
organizing healthaidgloballywith2a'
Raeza says 'The rewards are rolling in for you, child.'

Raeza chuckles politely.

Penzei giggles.

Raeza says 'Have nations not fallen to natural plagues?'

Raeza says 'The Yellows would know better than I, of course.'

Penzei flips through her notes again looking for some fragment of information

Penzei says 'The short answer is yes'

disease at different times, which is why they remain a force in the world.
Penzei says 'However, over time with the advent of the Wisdom they had some success staving
off disease at different times, which is why they remain a force in the world.'

Penzei says 'The combination of different herbs has shown to assist a persons immune system to
fight diseases'

Penzei says 'But it is not a cure'

Raeza nods slowly.

Raeza says 'Well it is certainly an interesting topic.'

Raeza says 'To me at least.'

Raeza says 'Is it part of the Yellow training, ethics? Not to pry in Yellow business of
course.'

Penzei says 'It is and we've discussed it on varying degrees'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Penzei says 'Everyone seems to have a slightly different opinion'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Raeza says 'It is natural to have different opinions.'

Raeza says 'I particularly enjoy digging into the implications of those opinions Often, I
think people do not really sit down and question the implications of their ethical views
on things.'

Raeza says 'It strikes me that ethics of Healing is important to teach even very young
Accepted who may not go into the Yellow.'

Raeza says 'We encourage all Accepted to go out and offer support, often quite early in
their training.'

Penzei says 'Often times we in the Tower have to hold people's lives in our hands and not only
do we have to think about the present but how it will effect our future relations with
different individuals around the world. It is never easy I should say. I held a debate
on the topic as well and different Aes Sedai and Accepted had different opinions on the
matter for certain.'

Penzei says 'I agree it is very important'

Raeza says 'Ah. Fantastic. I shall look up this debate. Assuming there is a record?'

Penzei says 'There is!'

Penzei thumbs through her parchments saying," let me retreive it for you! "

Tic in 7 seconds!

Raeza says 'It is a shame I missed it. I will be most eager to review the record.'

Penzei pulls one of the parchments from her binder and hands it to you.

Raeza says 'Brilliant.'

Raeza says 'I will put this away for reading later.'

Raeza puts the parchment into a chest.

Raeza says 'Ah it was recent as well.'

Penzei nods in agreement.

Raeza says 'Have you met with my sister? I hear she is back as well.'

Raeza says 'Firimei.'

Penzei says 'I did, earlier today!'

Raeza says 'Oh you mentioned it earlier.'

Raeza bonks her head.

Penzei giggles.

Raeza says 'Did you have an engaging conversation?'

Penzei says 'It is nice to be able to corner a few White Ajah ! Sometimes they can be a rare
occurrence given that there are not many!'

Penzei says 'Oh we had a great conversation, mostly about the White Ajah'

Penzei says 'I've had limited interaction with the White Ajah'

Raeza says 'We were very active around the time that I shawled, some time ago now. But not
so much of late. We tend to go into long periods of deep thought.'

Raeza chuckles politely.

Penzei says 'As it seems customary of such a position'

Penzei giggles.

Penzei says 'It seems to me almost as if the White Ajah are the ones keeping us all honest'

Raeza says 'It is an interesting way of looking at it.'

Penzei says 'Well... you gain experince from the different Ajahs you'll find typical
personalities in each'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Raeza says 'I believe our role weaves in and out of that of every other Ajah.'

Raeza says 'Perhaps more than any other Ajah.'

Penzei nods in agreement.

Penzei says 'I would agree'

Raeza says 'I can always find an interesting topic to discuss with any girl, apprenticed
to any Ajah, and one that relates to her Ajah of interest.'

Penzei smiles happily.

Raeza says 'Logic and reason is need everywhere.'

Raeza says 'From battle plans to negotiations.'

Penzei says 'It is a precarious balance, when emotion would have you doing things that could
have terrible consequences'

Raeza says 'I see my role as preparing our girls to develop their thinking skills, to make
well reasoned arguments and decisions, and to see the flaws in the arguments of others.'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Penzei says 'Hence my description of keeping us all 'honest''

Penzei giggles.

Raeza says 'You said something earlier that I found interesting.'

Raeza says 'It was the "heat of the moment" argument. I hear it often from Greens.'

Penzei nods in agreement.

Raeza says 'Usually something along the lines of, "In the heat of the moment, you cannot
think about every detail so you have to follow your gut."'

Raeza says 'What would you guess is my view on this argument?'

Penzei says 'Well, given I have experince in the subject, I make decisions based on the
current danger level'

Raeza motions you to continue.

Penzei says 'varying from mild danger to immanent death... the ability degrades quickly as the
risk goes uip'

Raeza says 'Ability to make careful decisions you mean?'

Penzei says 'Yes, that is what I meant, ofcourse'

Penzei says 'The only thing that helps in those situations, is previous combat experince'

Raeza says 'Is it only previous combat experience?'

given the decisions they made, you can sometimes make assumptions about how events will

Penzei says 'After having been led into combat by Aes Sedai and Warders and watched what
happened given the decisions they made, you can sometimes make assumptions about how
events will transpire'

Raeza nods slowly.

Penzei says 'It's not a crystal ball looking into the future... but it will save your life'

Penzei says 'and others'

Raeza says 'Imagine an Aes Sedai who has only ever done battle in the Blight is assigned
to go to the southwest and battle the damane there.'

Raeza says 'Will she say, "Well I have a lot of battle experience, I will be fine."?'

Penzei says 'Well, she could consult others with someone experinced in such matters before
going'

Penzei says 'Much like we are talking about it now'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Tic in 7 seconds!

Raeza says 'And I hope she would.'

Penzei says 'And bend the experince of others for her own use'

Raeza says 'Otherwise, I would question her wisdom.'

Raeza chuckles politely.

Raeza says 'My point is that preparation is important.'

Raeza says 'Preparation and planning.'

Raeza says 'To finish:'

Raeza says 'My point is that preparation is important, and preparation gives us time to
carefully think about hypothetical scenarios logically and to make good plans.'

Raeza says 'Of course it is true that some decisions must be made in the moment, by gut.'

Penzei nods in agreement.

Raeza says 'But if we are good in our planning, we can think of situations that are likely
to arise, and come up with a principled plan to follow when they do.'

Penzei begins scribbling furiously in her notes

Penzei says 'I whole heartedly agree !'

Raeza says 'So a gut decision is not necessary. We can fall back on a principled one.'

Raeza says 'That is all. I will not keep you longer Accepted. Thank you for humoring me
and my rambling for so long.'

Penzei says 'Thank you so much for your time and enlightenment !'

Raeza says 'I look forward to talking with you again, and the Light illumine you.'

Raeza nods in agreement.

Penzei says 'I look forward to consulting you again Raeza Sedai!'

Penzei stands up.

Raeza gestures with her hand.

The door smoothly swings open.

Penzei curtseys to her audience.

[Aloisa]

Awarded Penzei and Raeza. Please see a silver-haired Aes Sedai and say receive.