Wheel of Time MUD

While Yve was awarded for her task, I will award the formal side of the log and also Sister Aelrena!

Rplizer +1 qps : 1
Extra meticulous edit +1 qps : 1
Length bonus +1-2 qps : 0
Summary: +1 qps : 0

Total:
Yve 2 rpqps
Aelrena 2 rpqps

POV: Yve the Wearied Novice
Setting: The Brown Ajah Study
Participants: Yve, Aelrena Sedai

Note: Yve's QPs for the content have been awarded.

An overworked, grumbling scribe bustles into the room, scowling darkly.

The scribe says 'Aelrena Sedai requests your presence in the Brown study, yve.'

Finishing her errand, the scribe turns on her heel and scurries back the way she came.

(Yve fetches her notes and reports to the Brown Ajah study)

*knock knock*

The carveddoor is opened from the other side.

Aelrena glances at the door and calls, 'You may enter.'

You curtsey before Aelrena.

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

Aelrena nods at you.

You say 'I believe I am ready to deliver my report.'

Aelrena sits in a plush armchair by the window, a stack of books beside her as she surveys
the novice.

Aelrena gestures for the girl to sit in the plain wooden chair across from her.

Yve sits in the chair.

You say 'Choosing a single book was... not easy. There are so many that would be
pertinent to my current position and aims, or even just those that further my general
knowlegdge of the workings of the world.'

Aelrena arches an eyebrow.

Aelrena says 'As I recall, my task was to find something that INTERESTS you.'

Aelrena grins evilly.

You nod in agreement.

You say 'It's difficult to choose when almost everything is interesting.'

You say 'I was initially drawn to books on the living world around us, anatomy, or the
plants and creatures that share our land. In looking at drawings of birds in flight I
considered that perhaps the study of physical motion and the interaction of bodies and
mundane forces would be a better starting point, as these are essential for the
understanding of motion.'

Aelrena nods slowly, her gaze measuring as she listens.

You say 'However these things rely rather heavily on abstract mathematical concepts which
might make for a very dry and unintersting presentation.'

Yve smiles slightly.

You say 'With this in mind I sought to find a subject that would be relevant to what I
should be learning as I progress in the Tower.'

You say 'I looked to books by the Sitters and Amyrlins of the past, advisories and
biographies, instructional texts and manuals. I found one which i believe underpins not
only my continued education, but in a sense all learning.'

Aelrena arches an eyebrow.

Yve pulls a small stack of paper from her bag and quickly checks that they are
in order.

You say 'If I may begin, Aelrena Sedai?'

Aelrena gestures for the novice to continue.

Yve clears her throat and takes a deep breath.

You say 'The book I have chosen is, First Steps in Reasoning, by Beryl Merle (515 NE), a
study of logic itself. The title of which is probably about as close to a joke as you
will hear from a member of the White Ajah, I am told, given the title of the head of the
White is the First Reasoner and I believe she was the head of the Ajah at the time, this
also being a text intended for Accepteds who wish to know more of what it is to be White
Ajah.'

Yve quickly looks down at the first page.

You say 'Interestingly she makes the assertion in the foreward that even humour itself is
a slave to logic, as the teller of a joke will often lead an audience to make common
assumptions based on their understanding of the words, which is then cleverly reversed or
distorted by the punchline. While the punchline will be consistent with the teller's
presented logic, it differs from the listener's perception of what the words initially
meant. '

You say 'Would you like an example? It's not from her book though. I had to hunt around
a bit for a good one.'

Aelrena says 'Feel free, I'm interested to see what you've found.'

You say 'A well fed merchant of Whitbridge set forth to Caemlyn. As he traveled past Four
Kings in the evening he enquired of a passing shepherd, "Will I be able to enter the city
this day?" to which the shepherd replied, "If a cart of hay may pass through, then surely
you will fit." This was in a collection of Gleeman's stories.'

Yve smiles broadly.

Aelrena smirks.

You say 'It sets the listener up to think he is asking if he will get there before the
gates are closed, then switches it around at the end.'

Yve looks at the notes again.

Aelrena says 'Certainly, and what about this topic is something that interests you, Child?
What have you found in it that piques your interest?'

You say 'I think it's the processes, I've never thought about things quite so...
scientifically.'

A Blue Sister has arrived from the south.

Aelrena nods along, "So, you might consider that it's the difference of perception then?
The ability to think from another perspective?"

Aelrena looks at a Blue Sister archly.

You say 'She goes on to say such logical misintpretations are warned against as a
potential pitfall in clear communication, which itself is described as one of the core
aspects of logic. More specifically, the ability to clearly describe a concept that it
may be understood correctly by the second or third party.'

You say 'So our perceptions and communication thereof need to align to be able to discuss
any particular thing.'

Aelrena nods at you.

You say 'She asks "How do we know truth? Only through the correct applications of the
proper rules of reasoning and the principle of valid argumentation."'

Aelrena says 'That would follow, there has to be common ground and understanding between
two parties in order to communicate.'

You nod in agreement.

You say 'To show her points about valid argumentation, two forms of logic are discussed,
inductive and deductive, with one preferable to the other.'

You say 'Taking the two statements, "All Aes Sedai channel the one Power" and "All Aes
Sedai are female" deductive reasoning would lead us to a third statement, "All Aes Sedai
are females who channel", which we know, obviously, but for the point of the excercise we
have to assume that initially we don't.'

You say 'This can be proved to be as true as our starting statements and could be
considered valid argumentation.'

You say 'Inductive reasoning could give rise to the proposal that in fact "All women who
channel are Aes Sedai", which we know is provably untrue, hence NOT valid argumentation.
This kind of conflation is strongly warned against.'

Yve shifts her papers to get to the next page.

You say 'All logic, she states, stems from the most basic premises of knowable truth, and
any concept can be broken down through a process of concious doubt to these underlying
first principles.'

You say 'Using the desconstructive approach allows one to take any situation and divide it
into smaller pieces of knowledge, which may then increase your understanding of the whole,
or from other direction take known facts and derive knowable truths from them.'

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

You say 'I have an example of this, from our lives in the Tower today.'

A Blue Sister leaves south.

You sense Aelrena connecting to the True Source.

Aelrena gestures at the door with her hand.

The door silently swings shut and lock with a soft *click*.

You giggle.

Aelrena says 'Please continue, I'm merely ensuring we don't have any more interruptions. '

You nod in agreement.

You say 'From my recent experiences, you could look at how the White Ajah manages the
fooodstuffs in the tower. The broader picture of "food logistics" is comprised of
singluar elements such as the rates of spoilage of certain items or the amount of salt
used per meal. The ordering of new stocks has to bear in mind the rates of use and decay
of many different items which are all considered individually. '

You say 'Even this is a fairly simplistic way of looking at it as other things like
seasonal availablity, travel times to other regions and even the weather can confound it
further.'

Aelrena says 'Rate of consumption would also be something to consider.'

You say 'Indeed, I've got another bit that leads on from this in a minute actually.'

Aelrena nods in agreement.

Yve shifts the page to the back and glances quickly through the next section of
notes.

You say 'She indicates that this approach should always lead to true conclusions if all
your first principle facts are known and true, but that in reality this is difficult to
achieve.'

You say 'She says "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, theory and
practice are different." In theory your deductions are based on what you assume are the
correct starting principles, and thus will be also correct. In reality it is virtually
impossible to know completely all of the factors that may influence your topic of
dissection, and hence the "truth" you discover may be flawed.'

You say 'With this in mind, she cautions that a true logician must be open to the fact
that any known truth could be later found to be untrue, or not as they understand it to
be, as and when new information is aquired.'

You say 'To use my logistical example above, if you only considered the facts of
consumption and decay within the tower when ordering supplies you may still find yourself
short if you don't consider that say, a certain spice merchant doesn't travel in the fall
due to ill weather on the seas he must traverse during that season.'

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

Aelrena says 'This is true.'

Yve smiles before delivering the next line.

You say 'She also warns that logic has other limits, for example, it is impossible to
prove with just logic that the entire world we live in wasn't created, as it is now, five
minutes ago, with all the history and memories as we perceive them to be also created in
that instant.'

Aelrena stifles a laugh behind her hand.

Yve smiles wryly. 'That one kind of hurt my head till I realised that it was
just an excersise in logic theory, and even if it were true, it kind of doesn't matter.

Aelrena nods at you.

Yve turns another page.

You say 'There are so many warnings in this book. Who would have thought how we think on
things could be so tricky.'

Aelrena chuckles politely.

You say 'One particular section of interest talks about the human problem, as she
describes it.'

You say '"As human beings, we are flawed." she writes, "A single person is unable to know
all there is to know, due to the vastness of available knowledge and thier limited mind
and lifetime (even that of an Aes Sedai), hence we are doomed to make mistakes of
reasoning. We must accept this, and adapt to it as best we can."'

You say 'This part becomes a longer discussion of the relevance of knowing core truths
that was already touched upon in the section on first principles. Mainly she felt that
sharing knowledge with peers, recording your processes and presenting your ideas to
educated groups of peers is the best known and available way to ensure the logic in any
findings is as close to practical reality as possible.'

Aelrena leans forward slightly as she braces her head against a fist.

You say 'I'm sorry Aelrena Sedai, I rather got into this one...'

Aelrena says 'Please continue, I'm interested though a touch surprised at your choice of
topic.'

You say 'I've never had a chance to study such highly academic ideas before. Most of the
books I've read are much more practical.'

Yve quickly glances down again.

You say '"A further confounder to the human problem is values. If one party's logic is
based on personal values or beliefs that differ from another's they may come to vastly
different conclusions on the same subject matter."'

Aelrena nods at you.

You say '"The White Ajah historically tries to distance emotion and belief from logic for
this reason, so that our findings should be as close to real truth as possible."'

Yve looks at her notes and grimaces slightly.

You say 'An example she uses is the Children of Light, ostensibly soldiers for good,
fighting the shadow in all its forms. As we know they believe all channelers will
inevitably turn to the shadow and must be destroyed "for the good of all"'

Aelrena says 'Certainly, I can appreciate an interest in higher learning and logic. More
than a few of my sisters have such, most of them just wore the ring before they showed
such thought.'

You say 'I've been told I'm something of a bookworm, for all my time in the wilds of
Andor.'

Aelrena chuckles politely.

Aelrena nods at you.

You say 'I feel like I'm just making up for lost time, so many of the girls here had
actual tutors growing up.'

Aelrena says 'It's not a bad trait to have.'

Aelrena glances to the stack of tomes at her side before her umber eyes return to Yve.

Your cheeks are burning.

Aelrena says 'Your curiosity will serve you well, as will your excitement for things
others might consider bland.'

You nod in agreement.

Aelrena says 'Now, for all of this research, what have you learned?'

Aelrena arches an eyebrow.

Aelrena says 'You can speak to me on the principles discussed by Beryl, but if you took
away nothing than you have not enriched your own understanding.'

You say 'Mainly that I should try to be clear in my thinking, not jump to conclusions.'

You say 'Always contrast my findings with those of others.'

Aelrena nods at you.

Aelrena says 'Perhaps there's also the lesson that clear communication is the basis for
understanding.'

You say 'Indeed so. '

You smile happily.

Aelrena nods in agreement.

Aelrena says 'I'm impressed with your work Yve, did you have anything more to add from the
report?'

Aelrena arches an eyebrow.

You say 'I'm nearly to the end of my notes, Aelrena Sedai.'

Aelrena's eyes dart to the notes in the novice's hands before nodding and gesturing for
her to continue.

You nod in agreement.

You say 'The actions of the Children are based on the beliefs that firstly, no human is
responsible enough hold divine power, and secondly that power will corrupt any mortal
eventually. These statements would be among the first principles of their logic. '

You say 'We're still talking about how being human is a problem. I think it's a White
Ajah thing?'

You say 'The first is merely a belief and should not be considered as "truth", the second
is also just an assumption based on a scant few who have done evil deeds, albeit
significantly so.'

Yve frowns again.

You say 'That said, taking those statements to be facts could lead to a logically
reasonable conclusion that all who channel must be killed.'

Aelrena chuckles politely.

You say 'Of course, we know that to be obsurd, but at the same time must also accept that
our own logic may be imperfect due to our own biases.'

You say 'She does like to tie herself in knots.'

Yve puts the page quickly at the back of the stack.

You say 'She talks in some length in later sections about ancient scholars, whose names
have long passed from records even then, who would argue the finer points of the
application of logical thought and from whom all of our thinking, both scholarly and
mundane probably derived.'

You say 'Much of it, I'll be honest, goes above my head at this time and seems only to
serve as proof of her understanding of the area and provide a frame of reference for her
discussions on the topic.'

You say 'I'd like to leave it here with a short quote that I think ties it up nicely.'

You say 'She wrote, "My father, a stonemason, would always say, measure twice, cut once.
This is irrefutably a prudent measure which we can all take inspiration from. When you
think you are finished, look at your findings, and then look again most thoroughly before
taking any action upon them, as this action may not be able to be undone."'

You emote: Yve stands up and curtseys before Aelrena.

You say 'Thank you for listening to my talk.'

Aelrena says 'And a lesson on prudence as well.'

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

Yve smiles, visibly relaxing now that she is done.

You say 'I suppose such pragmatism is logical.'

Aelrena stifles a laugh behind her hand.

Aelrena says 'Perhaps I should point you toward the White.'

Aelrena says 'I'm certain they'd enjoy such a discussion.'

You say 'I think that would actually melt my brain.'

Aelrena stifles a laugh behind her hand.

Aelrena says 'Then this one time, I shall be merciful.'

You say 'This has been a fun topic to delve into, and I think it'll help me, but... and I
mean no disrespect, spending 300 years discussing abstract concepts may grow tiresome.'

Aelrena stifles a laugh behind her hand.

Aelrena says 'Then perhaps you're more likely to find yourself at home in another
scholarly Ajah.'

You say 'I'm itching to get off the island again. I miss open ground.'

Aelrena says 'Something to consider more closely when you earn the ring, certainly.'

You say 'I have been directed to give some thought in that direction, yes.'

Aelrena says 'Which leads quite nicely into my next topic of conversation, what do you
think it means to be Accepted, Child?'

You say 'Ooh, to be Accepted.'

You think really hard.

You say 'To me it's an acknowledgement of both one's continued commitment to the Tower and
it's principles, and in return of the Tower recognising that.'

Aelrena says 'That is part of it, what else?'

You say 'That it is time to look beyond the stacks of dishes?'

Aelrena chuckles politely.

You say 'I know that it's the time when you consider your future, which Ajah you may with
to join, ramp up your studies and maybe take an apprenticeship, but that's really just
more processes.'

You say 'For me personally, it's a dream to surpass my namesake, a great grandmother many
generations back, who came to the tower but eloped with a guard during her time as
accepted.'

Aelrena says 'It is to commit yourself fully to becoming Aes Sedai, to prove that you are
more than a child who must be led on apron strings. It's a commitment to teach those
novices who come after you. It is both the confirmation that you mean to attain a shawl,
and the affirmation that you are prepared to prove yourself to us.'

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

Aelrena says 'A wonder she wasn't brought back to the Tower by force, I suspect.'

You say 'She hid well. In a village near Illian.'

Aelrena says 'The Tower's reach is long, child.'

Aelrena nods at you.

Aelrena says 'Now, before we meet next, I would suggest you speak with an Accepted on what
it means to be such.'

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

You say 'I will, Aelrena Sedai.'

Aelrena says 'Isolet I know has been awake of late, or you might consider leaving a note
outside sheriam's study.'

You nod in agreement.

Aelrena says 'Was there anything else you wished to speak of while I am here?'

You say 'Not right now. I think I need a lie down. I'm not used to speaking before
someone like this.'

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

Aelrena says 'Then you may go.'

Aelrena's lips twitch up slightly at the corners.

You thank Aelrena heartily.

(Yve leaves the study)


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Aelrena says 'liveaward Yve 3 qps for Logicalresearch'

A silver-haired Aes Sedai says 'As you command, Aelrena Sedai. I will now award LIVE QPS.'

A silver-haired Aes Sedai says 'It is done.'
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